tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post6699169826415186059..comments2023-03-25T21:50:50.891+13:00Comments on Bavardess: Self-representation and identity in medieval lettersBavardesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10737120234578385755noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post-11642264736067847112012-08-28T10:17:10.104+12:002012-08-28T10:17:10.104+12:00You ask some excellent questions here, Gavin, and ...You ask some excellent questions here, Gavin, and they are things I am also asking myself. There are several interesting points I’m going to take up in a separate post but here are some initial thoughts (bear in mind that my comments are provisional at this stage, given that I’m still very early in the research process). From what I can see so far, the Gascon nobility did not consider themselves either French or English, but often expressed the belief that they were ‘more English’ than French that at times incorporated the idea of French as an ‘alien tongue’. The merchant elites of places like Bordeaux need to be considered as a separate group as their interests sometimes conflicted with those of the landed nobility, but they also seem to have had a stronger affinity for the English. I have found cases where Gascon nobles did change sides and fight for the French king (or the dauphin, during the Armagnac-Burgundy conflict), but then returned to their allegiance to the English king on the grounds that he was their ‘natural’ lord. (This binary of natural/unnatural in regards to treason is another interesting angle…). Prior to Troyes and the dual monarchy, Gascon loyalty was to the English king as duke/lord of Aquitaine rather than as king of England (Gascony never being integrated into the English ‘kingdom’ as such). I’m curious about how much this shifted or was tested by the revived claim to the French throne. Things definitely got very messy once the whole Armagnac vs. Burgundy conflict erupts. <br /><br />I became aware only recently that a number of Gascons actually moved to England after Gascony was lost in 1453 rather than become subjects of the French king. I don’t know if this was a large immigration, but it would be interesting to know more about their motivations and how they constructed their identities once they were living in English communities.<br /><br />On Welsh – yes, that is a whole other question! There is definitely a discourse of language/’tongue’ in some of those cases in the early 1400s related to the Glyn Dwr rebellion that I need to explore in more depth and detail.<br />Bavardesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737120234578385755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post-13666278413034063152012-08-27T06:47:11.503+12:002012-08-27T06:47:11.503+12:00How did Gascons signify loyalty to English kings? ...How did Gascons signify loyalty to English kings? Was there a distinct Gascon identity that could be opposed to the French? Obviously Captal de Buch performed loyalty by fighting alongside the Prince of Wales at Poitiers (although strangely one of them is much more famous for it than the other). What other ways were there? This seems to be one of many things that complicate the English/French binary. Did the Armagnac versus Burgundian feud and English alliances with one side or the other make it harder to define an English identity in opposition to 'the French', or did the imagined community function regardless of reality? There's also the Plantagenet claim, especially after the Treaty of Troyes. We've already heard about the king's two bodies and the king's two genders. Can we also talk about the king's two nationalities?<br /><br />Sorry to complicate things even further, but how does Welsh fit into this? Was it seen as a treasonable language because Glyndwr rebelled against the English king and got help from the French? Did Welsh soldiers fighting for England against France make up for it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post-67737620699979546492012-08-24T08:41:26.338+12:002012-08-24T08:41:26.338+12:00Thanks, Stu. I do need to look more closely at wha...Thanks, Stu. I do need to look more closely at what's been done in recent times on monastic letter-writing. I have seen a few articles that specifically look at gender/ masculinity in that context, so you're right in that there may also be some good examples that consider language/ 'ethnicity' and other aspects of identity.Bavardesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737120234578385755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post-59625696017810241852012-08-23T23:49:35.193+12:002012-08-23T23:49:35.193+12:00Sorry, here's where you can find some of Julia...Sorry, here's where you can find some of Julian's stuff:<br /><br />http://www2.hull.ac.uk/fass/history/our-staff/julian-haseldine.aspxstuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388674850920848503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9071757402186489670.post-84927118867091089002012-08-23T23:48:09.491+12:002012-08-23T23:48:09.491+12:00It's a little earlier than your period and mon...It's a little earlier than your period and monastic, but there's a lot of work on medieval friendship networks and the use of letters to actively construct/influence a place in an overall network. Julian Haseldine has done a lot on it with his work on the letter collections of Peter of Celle and Bernard of Clairvaux. Maybe his approaches might show you some of the divisions in language that apply.stuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388674850920848503noreply@blogger.com